REAL ART EDUCATION DEBATE

My old dear friend Kevin is starting his first year as a high school English teacher, a job for which he has been preparing and studying for a couple of years now. As you know, I've just finished a six year stint as a high school teacher, myself. For over a year he and I have been having an ongoing discussion and debate about the nature of education: what works best, what's wrong with the system, what's right, and how to survive it all with sanity intact. These discussions have been lively at times, but always thought-provoking and fun. While neither of us have any illusions that our debates will change the nature of the public school system as it currently exists, I believe that both of us are better people for our exchanges.

For the last few days, another round of our debates has been going on in Real Art comments that was provoked by a statement that I posted that was both inflammatory and, I must admit, for the most part unexplained (however, if you really want to understand where I'm coming from on education, read this). So, while a Democrat "stay the course" corporatist debates a Republican "stay the course" corporatist on TV tonight, I figure it's appropriate to post a debate with some real clash.

Coming to you from the Real Art comment boards, another Kevin and Ron education debate:

If there actually was an atmosphere of discipline and fear of authority in public schools I might be able to agree with you. As it is, the real reason that the only students who learn are those who decide to do it themselves is that there is actually less of a punitive, authoritarian atmosphere in schools than there is in society. If you or I were to disrupt people's ability to buy products in a store or to make their way from point A to point B in the way that many students disrupt the learning process, I guarantee that we would not soon return to do it again soon (not to mention the shorter, sharper shock dealt out to those who interrupt their workplace). The reality is that after years and years of litigation against the education system, schools have become places where the students are in charge of their own learning, and those who don't really feel like learning anything are making it next to impossible for those that do to get on with it.

Kevin

Motivation from within is awesome when all, or even most, of the participants are motivated. When a third are NOT motivated from within, and another third are undecided, you wind up with the current system which leaves the motivated third to their own devices and dooms the undecided to no education at all.

Kevin

But Kevin, you're looking at school discipline as though it existed in a vacuum. It doesn't; it's a societal phenomenon. That is, student attitudes about discipline and motivation begin at home, and these attitudes reflect parental attitudes and methods, which are, in turn, influenced by the overall culture.

The point is that, for decades now, our culture worships and adores the anti-hero rebel. Popular culture is full of role models that don't take any shit from anybody; parents both act out such behaviors while at the same time bemoaning how unruly their children are: the schools are hopelessly mired in a 19th century system of discipline and motivation that cannot possibly work in the 21st century.

Ron

Teachers, as authority figures, are set up by society to be the targets of young would-be individuals trying to prove themselves.

That third of students you speak of is here to stay. How do we teach them? How do we keep them from disrupting all of education without descending further into educational totalitarianism in the form of "zero tolerance?"

The solution is to start over, at the very beginning. Educators cannot be authority figures; they must be facilators of learning, and children must, at the youngest ages, be taught to work together, for a common goal, instead of against each other and their teachers.

We must find a way to fly under American anti-authoritarian radar. Really, that's not such a bad thing.

Ron

And if you want the system as it is now to work better for you (for survival's sake), I strongly suggest you start to cultivate what you call an actual "atmosphere of discipline and fear of authority" in your classroom starting TOMORROW. The system can only help you if you're willing to use it. If your classroom is being disrupted by weird insurgents, you really need to go Nazi on them and not let up for at least six weeks.

I'm not kidding. Under the current system, it's the only way.

That's why I quit.

Ron

Come on now, what is it exactly that America worships?

"America worships discipline and authority"

or

"The point is that, for decades now, our culture worships and adores the anti-hero rebel."

Kevin

I agree that the third who don't want to learn will always be there. Where we disagree is in how best to deal with them. You seem to think that a utopian balance will appear when students take charge of their own learning (something you state is difficult when every move is madated etc). Regardless of how put-upon students think they are, the freedom of choice they enjoy now was unthinkable even 15 years ago. Hardly anything can be "mandated" about student behavior without first checking with an attorney. In this atmosphere, I think that the students ARE in charge of their education

Kevin

The reason so few are getting an education is that teachers now have to spend the majority of their time trying to keep those that don't care from disrupting class (without, of course, actually doing anything to the disruptive student that might curb or stop their behavior) instead of helping those that want to learn but can't do it on their own.

If you are imagining a system where those who refuse to take part in education are allowed to move on and out, then I agree, the group process approach would be amazing. If they are forced/allowed to remain, then we need more discipline not less, in order to, hopefully, teach them how to take part in positive, productive communal action (it doesn't come naturally).

Kevin

I agree that there is a contradiction, but it's not in my thinking or analysis; rather it's in the culture itself. That is, Americans worship authority and discipline as long as it's somebody else who has to deal with it. Otherwise, Americans don't like to take any shit personally. You know, kind of like drug war zealots who suddenly change their tune when their house is seized because their teenage kid was selling dime bags out of his bedroom.

Contradictory, yes, but that's the USA.

Ron

And I repeat: if your classroom is being disrupted time and again by the same people, you've got to put the system to work. You've got to bust these kids over and over for the least little thing. Call their parents every damned day if you have to. It's something of a hassle, but it works, if the administration is doing it's job, too.

Ron

Also, I don't believe in utopianism, but I do believe that things can be much better. Basically, if the kind of system I'm imagining was implemented, we'd have to write off an entire generation of both students and teachers--all have been socialized into what amounts to atagonistic relationships that are, at best, inefficient for learning.

Ron

CONTINUED

We'd have to start over with all new teachers and with brand new kindegarteners: we would have to start with play and games that focus on group responsibility, which ultimately translate into individual responsibility to the group, games that emphasize collective problem solving, games with increasing levels of challenge as each year goes by. Ideally, students would not be thrown into a system of relationships that are, by their very nature, doomed to be understood in terms of "us versus them." The idea is to create an environment where there is only "us."

Pie in the sky? Maybe, but no one's ever really tried to do this, or even study it seriously. Who knows? I don't know how it could be worse than what we have now.

Ron

I think it actually has been tried. It seems to only work if there is a plan in place to jetison those who don't buy into it (like all plans be they educational, governmental, community etc that depend on EVERYONE somehow learning that things go much more smoothly when we ALL recognize that there is really only an "us" and no "them"). There will always be a butthead, or more likely a contingent of buttheads, who will see a "them". Thus, my use of the term Utopian.

Kevin

And here's my final comment:

Personally, I've never heard of it being attempted in the way that I've described, from the very beginning, schoolwide, administered by people who have absolutely no connection with or experience in the public education establishment. Students and teachers from the current system bring in attitudes and subconscious behaviors that are permenantly laden with authoritarian and antagonistic leanings. We must start with a blank slate; public education in its current state is extraordinarily successful with its indoctrinational power, for both students and teachers.

As for the buttheads, one hopes that a new, communal system of education would foster a group spirit such that peer pressure, along with the human herd instinct, would deal with the buttheads in a much less authoritarian way: the buttheads would learn that being a butthead only impedes progress and positive social interatction.

What do you think, Kevin?

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